Curse

Gmr Leon · Oct 22, 2008, 12:13 AM // 00:13

A brief introduction to the Mists and the Rift.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Manuscripts

Before there were humans or dwarves, before there were even worlds or the stars that light the night sky, there was but one thing in the universe—the Mists. The Mists touch all things. They are what binds the universe together, past present, and future. They are the source of all good and evil, of all matter and knowledge. It is said that all forms of life, no matter how simple or complex, can trace their origins back to this one place.

In the middle of the Mists is a spot where time moves neither forward nor back. It is a tear in the fabric of the cosmos, the point of perfect balance between all forces of the universe. This place is known as the Rift, and there is nothing to which it does not connect, nothing that cannot be reached from inside it. Those who have the know-how to travel across the universe through the Mists must pass through the Rift on their way to all other places. It is the center of all things.

The Nature of the Gods and their Relation to the Mists.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kerrsh

From that look on your face, I suppose you want to know more. How can I put this so that you will understand.... Gods are part of this world. Think of these "facets" as one of any number of possible manifestations of those gods.

From this example, I believe that the Gods are actually sentient portions of the Mists. From what we’re provided in the description of the Mists in the portion describing Razah, this doesn’t sound too far off.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Manuscripts

The protomatter that makes up the Mists strains toward creation, often spawning demonic creations in nightmarish forms. Not all creatures from the Mists are demonic, however. When the Mists come into contact with a suitable human template, for example, it can copy that form, creating a sentient entity with a humanoid appearance and an almost human mind.

This being the case, it seems highly probable or possible, that the Mists themselves would clump together and coalesce until they formed a deity-like entity that dominates a certain aspect of the Mists. These beings would contain the main element of the Mists that makes the Mists so peculiar, straining towards creation; being sentient, however, they would have traits that are similar to humans like emotion and caring. This in turn would give reason for certain actions on the part of the Gods and would explain why most of the sentient species are aware of their existence, despite being from another plane or world.

The current Gods may have been humans from another world, this is entirely possible. My thought was reaching far back, before the current Gods, without my realizing it at first until now, to the first pantheon of Gods. They were formed by concentrated areas of the Mists, containing larger chunks in their souls, or perhaps even their entire soul was a chunk of the Mists. Which is what allows them to so easily manipulate the Mists because they're able to uplink with it at ease.

I believe they have a higher amount of control over the Mists, but not complete dominance over it.

The Nature of the Bloodstones, Magic itself, and the Mists.

The most interesting part is the introduction of magic into the world, this was done by Abaddon, as we all know and it states that he handed it out too freely. I think, that water conducts magic yes, but that magic itself is the manipulation of the Mists. What I think Abaddon did, was bring the Mists or certain aspects of the Mists, into the living creatures themselves and that he brought the Mists closer to Tyria itself allowing easier manipulation of the Mists. That he brought the Mists close to Tyria and of course, being so close allows easier manipulation which allows abuse on the part of the races, which is why the Gods punished him and placed him in the Realm of Torment.

To bring the Mists closer to Tyria would only end in catastrophe, as we know it will produce demons on its own accord, and that would only unleash further devastation upon Tyria. If Abaddon did this with that knowledge in mind is unknown, but as a God of Secrets it seems that it may have simply been something that the benefits outweighed the costs. However, the other Gods clearly disagreed, which is why they crafted the Bloodstones..And on that topic..

I believe that they obviously contain the more destructive forces of magic, but I also believe they act as a barrier against the Mists. A sort of grid that keeps the Mists from completely pervading into Tyria and keeping the balance of power, another way to view it could be as columns supporting a ceiling and keeping it from completely falling down. In short, we can simply call this the Bloodstone Barrier, or Barriers.

An idea that occurred to me after the initial posting of this thread, and can be seen in a later post of mine, is a better example of my idea. My idea would probably be better described by a Dam. There's a large amount of water on one side, and a lesser amount on the other. Every now and then, water is let through the Dam to the other side. In my example it would be that the Mists as a whole are on one side, and then a smaller restricted amount is on the other side, in this case Tyria, with the Bloodstones acting as the Dam. When they are activated, the more destructive aspects of the Mists are let through or more easily manipulated, and then the flow stops whenever the length of the activation ends.

Magic, Mists, Water

Every tragedy that has occurred in Tyria has usually altered the landscape dramatically, by lowering something. In the Margonite War, the water level was lowered, and the seabed brought to the surface. In the Searing, Ascalon was almost completely leveled. Orr was completely leveled. The Harvest Temple was brought down by the force of Shiro’s death wail that it created a whirlpool and froze.

I believe that, in the case of the Margonite War, Abaddon utilized water’s conductivity, where the whirlpool is described in the Scriptures of Abaddon, to create the meteorites that struck down the ships, further depleting the water.

In the case of the Harvest Temple, we’re provided a wonderful, wonderful fact that further proves that the Gods are sentient portions of the Mists, the Mists are just a manipulation of magic, and that one can sidestep the barrier produced by the Bloodstones through certain methods. In this scenario, the Gods bless the Emperor with a part of their power to distribute among the people to ease their burdens, however, through rituals Shiro made himself capable of stealing this power, but this could only be done by releasing the power through death. The Emperor was a conduit and a container, which Shiro managed to make himself into through his rituals, however, Abaddon manipulated him to bypass the Bloodstone Barriers. He wanted to throw the Gods power in their face, and used it as a way to get souls to help his other end motives. When the power was released by Shiro’s death, it was as though the Mists themselves punched into the world, a side effect of this through the conductivity of the water, and whatever the nature of the manipulated Mists, was the petrifying of the Jade Sea and the Echovald.

When it comes to the Searing and Cataclysm, it would appear that the artifacts themselves held a part of the Mists, and of course when manipulated correctly, bypassed the Bloodstone Barriers by their very existence beneath them. If the Mists are contained within an object, it appears that it could not be removed by the Barriers, but only by being hidden or removed from the world. Obviously for both artifacts used in the Searing and the Cataclysm, they went for the former.

Souls, Souls, the Never-Ending Energy Source?

So, I’ve come to the conclusion that magic is just a form of the Mists being manipulated, but souls happen to be a key energy source for Margonites, Demons, Mursaat, and perhaps even the Gods themselves. Magic is also a central energy source. The end conclusion then must be that souls contain certain parts of the Mists, that, when in a large supply, are a morbid and dark form of energy that is only used by the vilest creatures or by creatures that have no other choice but to use them for sustenance.

A point made later in this thread by Azazel was that the body or soul could possibly be a chunk of the Mists. Expanding on that with my idea that magic is simply the manipulation of the Mists, that chunk would be what allowed them the ability to manipulate. Highly skilled mages would have a larger chunk of the Mists making up their soul, or possibly just long years of training in how to connect the chunk to the whole of the Mists allowing easier manipulation.

Simply put: Souls contain a chunk of the Mists. Mages uplink that chunk to the whole, allowing them to manipulate the Mists. Ones with years of training are more adept at uplinking and keeping the link stable, allowing for easier prolonged manipulation of the Mists.

My apologies for the length..I’ve had this on my mind for quite awhile, and just now got to writing it down in a, hopefully, coherent manner that conveys my ideas in the proper manner and does not confuse anyone.

dilan155 · Oct 22, 2008, 12:48 AM // 00:48

didnt really get time to read the whole thing, but it looks very nice. never being a lore hunter my self, i never think about these kinds of things but its nice some people do.

Konig Des Todes · Oct 22, 2008, 02:07 AM // 02:07

Re-reading this thread to see the changes between here and GWO, I have a few things to say:

Quote:

Originally Posted by GmrLeon

A point made later in this thread by Azazel was that the body or soul could possibly be a chunk of the Mists. Expanding on that with my idea that magic is simply the manipulation of the Mists, that chunk would be what allowed them the ability to manipulate. Highly skilled mages would have a larger chunk of the Mists making up their soul, or possibly just long years of training in how to connect the chunk to the whole of the Mists allowing easier manipulation.

Although that could what I said in my post on GWO - I'll have to re-read my GWO post - at re-reading this thread to see what, if any, changes you made, I feel the need to make a point or two.

While the Spirits, in my opinion, is linked to the Mists, the Soul itself is not a part of the Mists itself. If it was, the souls would go straight to the Mists and not the Rift when taken by the Envoys.

I say this because you must pass through the Mists when going to any other world. First through Mists, then the Rift, then when the Spirit dies, the essence goes to the Mists.

So I would say that you need a little re-wording, as you say it, it sounds like you mean the entire soul is a piece of the Mists, while it would have to be that a soul contains a part of the Mists.

Because when the part of the Mists goes through the Mists without something to surround it (i.e., the body or the soul), than there would be nothing to keep that part of the Mists that is within the soul from combining with the Mists. There needs to be something to keep the two separate, even after death.

I hope you get what I mean, I know my wording can be confusing at times.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GmrLeon

My apologies for the length..

This made me chuckle. Comparing it to half the GWO threads, and some of my threads, not very long.

Anyways, I'll get to archiving this thread.

draxynnic · Oct 22, 2008, 04:24 AM // 04:24

As a nitpick, I'm pretty sure it wasn't the free distribution of magic that got Abaddon sent into Torment, but the tantrum that he threw when the other gods decided that the magic needed to be reined in.

That said, there is one amusing result of the theory that souls are formed from the Mists - it might explain why it's generally only possible to target creatures with spells - there needs to be a conduit at the spell's origin point, and the target, willingly or not, provides that conduit. Spells that don't fizzle due to the target dying work because they only require the conduit to be present when the spell is started to bind the spell to that spot.

Malis Of Monrovia · Oct 22, 2008, 08:17 AM // 08:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by GmrLeon

This being the case, it seems highly probable or possible, that the Mists themselves would clump together and coalesce until they formed a deity-like entity that dominates a certain aspect of the Mists. These beings would contain the main element of the Mists that makes the Mists so peculiar, straining towards creation; being sentient, however, they would have traits that are similar to humans like emotion and caring. This in turn would give reason for certain actions on the part of the Gods and would explain why most of the sentient species are aware of their existence, despite being from another plane or world.

The Mists themselves would clump together and coalesce until they formed a deity-like entity. Our current Gods. These Gods dominate certain aspects of the Mists.

War and Fire: Balthazar
Beauty, Illusion, Energy and Chaos: Lyssa
Earth and Nature: Melandru
Death and Ice: Grenth
Life and Air: Dwayna
Water and Knowledge: Abaddon

But we don't know if those are the only aspects of the Mists...

'Legend has it that Tyria was the first world created and that after the Exodus, the Gods went on to create other worlds.' -Guildwiki

Ok, so the Gods created Tyria, and the Mists made the Gods, and according to GmrLeon; the Mists could bring another God into existence...awesome...:P

Gmr Leon · Jul 03, 2009, 08:56 AM // 08:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes

So I would say that you need a little re-wording, as you say it, it sounds like you mean the entire soul is a piece of the Mists, while it would have to be that a soul contains a part of the Mists.

Because when the part of the Mists goes through the Mists without something to surround it (i.e., the body or the soul), than there would be nothing to keep that part of the Mists that is within the soul from combining with the Mists. There needs to be something to keep the two separate, even after death.

I'm not quite sure on whether or not the initial form of my post contained this last sentence, but I think it covers the next paragraph that you commented on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gmr Leon

The end conclusion then must be that souls contain certain parts of the Mists, that, when in a large supply, are a morbid and dark form of energy that is only used by the vilest creatures or by creatures that have no other choice but to use them for sustenance.

An interesting aspect of this analysis just came to me now, in that saying certain parts could also be an explanation for why one must keep their primary profession. That aside, I mostly just posted in this to bring it back to the surface, what with the interest in the Mists by more than just myself existing now.

draxynnic · Jul 05, 2009, 06:56 AM // 06:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by GmrLeon

An interesting aspect of this analysis just came to me now, in that saying certain parts could also be an explanation for why one must keep their primary profession. That aside, I mostly just posted in this to bring it back to the surface, what with the interest in the Mists by more than just myself existing now.

Essentially that a character's primary profession is determined by the combination of energies from the Mists that went into the soul's creation, thus making a characters primary profession (or potential primary profession, anyway - it's possible, even likely, that plenty of people fail to achieve their potential due to their 'natural' profession not being taught in the area) essentially predetermined from birth?

Come to think on it, the parenthetical idea of characters potentially not being able to learn their primary profession due to it not being taught in the area they grow up might explain why some characters have secondary professions and others don't - some of those with a single profession may be people who never had a chance to learn their primary profession and are essentially using their secondary profession. However, there are indications that some individuals can develop their primary professions without being taught - while the Ebon Vanguard at least obviously has an Assassin training program post-Searing, Anton appears to have developed an Assassin primary despite, as far as we know, never visiting a location that trains Assassins (unless Rend Ragemauler arranged for him to receive Assassin training, and the low frequency of Charr primary Assassins - Gron Fierceclaw and Rake Blazeclaw being the only examples - suggest that these too may be spontaneous developers rather than the products of a formal Charr training regime, although the presence of Shadowblades in Rragar's Menagerie may be an indication that Rake may have been working on starting one).